Curse

Milennin · Sep 03, 2010, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Are you sure any current card out there at the moment is going to "slaughter" Guild Wars 2 at high/max!? When I saw that mega huge dragon boss battle with tons of players around it, that's hard to imagine.=O But you'd think it would be better to wait till close to the release of Guild Wars 2 because stuff might be a bit cheaper by then?

Lord Sojar · Sep 03, 2010, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Are you sure any current card out there at the moment is going to "slaughter" Guild Wars 2 at high/max!? When I saw that mega huge dragon boss battle with tons of players around it, that's hard to imagine.=O But you'd think it would be better to wait till close to the release of Guild Wars 2 because stuff might be a bit cheaper by then?

nVidia is about to roll out the rest of the GF104 products as well as GF106 and GF108. It might be wise to wait just a bit longer, as you could potentially get a much better card for the same price if not cheaper.

I've heard that the GT450 is going to be quite the killer midrange card, for an insanely low price. Think GTX275 performance for 99 bucks...mkay?

Elder III · Sep 03, 2010, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Are you sure any current card out there at the moment is going to "slaughter" Guild Wars 2 at high/max!? When I saw that mega huge dragon boss battle with tons of players around it, that's hard to imagine.=O But you'd think it would be better to wait till close to the release of Guild Wars 2 because stuff might be a bit cheaper by then?

Yes, both NVIDIA and ATI/AMD have a few options that will max GW2 out with little difficulty. I agree with youthat GW2 is a MUCH better looking game than GW1 and take more to run, but remember it's a MMO based game and they are always optimized to run well on lesser hardware than say a major release FPS. So yeah, GW2 will look great, but it won't look anywheres near as good as allot of other games that are out right now (non MMOs) and won't take all that much to run it well either.

Milennin · Sep 03, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

What kind of cooler and PSU would a GT450 require?

Undead Cheese · Sep 03, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

Milennin: The discussion below that is italicized is IRRELEVANT for you. It's offtopic argument, as is becoming seemingly typical in Tech as of late...

SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm getting really tired of this arguing in Tech...

This isn't an issue of purely wattage in regards to high end gaming GPUs. It comes down to stable voltages on the 12v rails, enough amperage to power the PC properly, and since PSUs are only efficient at 80-90% and drop off sharply above that, that means you need to have a PSU that provides the needed stability at 80-85% of its peak power output.

A 400W PSU can provide a total of 33 amps (in theory) on the 12v rail. That's way too close for comfort. It might cut it, provided it was a top top quality 400w, but that's it.... and just cutting it isn't worth it.

To your second (insulting for no reason) point....

His power supply is already bloody providing the PCIe channel with the 75W it needs. So no, he won't need a new PSU to power a card that his power supply is already providing power to. He has a low power CPU and very few system components. He doesn't own a gaming rig! Honestly, I think you are just trying to start arguments for the sake of starting arguments at this point...

A good quality 400w, i.e the CX400 or a SXS400 completely blows your arguement out of the water, they are both PSU's that supply a 400w output stable and continuous. It is not cutting it close as a stock CPU with a GTX 460 isn't consuming anywhere NEAR 33 amps, and if you think otherwise, prove it.

Effiency has hardly anything to do with it, 80% effiency just means that 20% of the power pulled from the wall/socket is wasted as heat, which again is irrelevent to this arguement.

Really, I am getting tired of this complete misinformation in the tech section of this forum. This is why I started posting in this section in the first place. Please learn a thing or two about PSU's before you go blindly argueing with me about them.

As for the ''insult'', you have a rude habit of telling people they are wrong and simply dissapearing without giving a reason or anything. Very rude considering you're a Mod (I think?, correct me if I'm wrong).

Lord Sojar · Sep 03, 2010, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

What kind of cooler and PSU would a GT450 require?

No power specs as of this moment. Anyone's guess... I'm not privvy to inside nVidia info anymore, minus a few tidbits here and there from good friends still working there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

A good quality 400w, i.e the CX400 or a SXS400 completely blows your arguement out of the water, they are both PSU's that supply a 400w output stable and continuous. It is not cutting it close as a stock CPU with a GTX 460 isn't consuming anywhere NEAR 33 amps.

Try again.

33 amps is the theoretical current based on 400w at 12v. The GTX460s needs a minimum of 24A on the 12v rail to function.

Since only the best power supplies tap out at 87%-90% of their max output as 12v... let's say 85% for simplicity and as a more normal number for really good (but not cutting edge, which Corsair certainly aren't).

So, 85% of 400w is 340W. Thus, by P = VI, we get the following:

340 = 12 * I. Thus, I = 28.3333 amperes.

After copper reduction and capacitor loss, that's ~27A, to be split between the CPU and GPU. Let's just ignore capacitor degradation and resistance from any other source.

That's perfect case scenario that the laws of physics will allow based on some of the best PSU design available.

400w just is way too close to be a viable choice. In a pinch scenario, you could get by with it for a while, but your card would suffer.

Physics says you're probably off base here with a 400w PSU. 450W, yep, that would work provided it was a decent one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

As for the ''insult'', you have a rude habit of telling people they are wrong and simply dissapearing without giving a reason or anything. Very rude considering you're a Mod (I think?, correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm sorry I don't live on the forums 24/7 for your bidding... I'm not paid to do this, remember? And yes, I am most certainly a moderator. I tell people they are wrong when they are wrong. My education and background grants me that stunning ability. You and a few other newcomers to Tech seem to have this idea that I am a no knowing fool who posts in Tech... so you nitpick every word that I post in some attempt to find a flaw in it. From now on, you'll get no more layman terms from me, and you'll regret it.

Just ask anyone who knows me and gets me going on hard scientific terms...

I won't discuss my moderation ability further in public. If you wish to discuss this further, PM me.

Undead Cheese · Sep 03, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

The recommended minimum for a GTX 460 is 24 Amps for the WHOLE system. Not just the card, otherwise that would mean it consumes 288W. Are you saying the GTX 460 consumes 288W on it's own?

Again, if a 400 PSU is 80% efficient, it can still provide 400W of power, considering its a good one. Except 20% of the power pulled from the wall/socket is wasted as heat. (At full load it would take 480W from the wall socket) 400W PSU for a GTX 460 is not cutting it close what so ever, you'd only need a bigger PSU if you were going to overclock.

I do not think you are a no-knowing fool, but you act as if you know everything, which you clearly do not. Are you trying to tell me being a newcomer to a forum somehow makes you less knowledgeable/credible than the next person?

Lord Sojar · Sep 03, 2010, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

The recommended minimum for a GTX 460 is 24 Amps for the WHOLE system. Not just the card, otherwise that would mean it consumes 288W. Are you saying the GTX 460 consumes 288W on it's own?

Again, if a 400 PSU is 80% efficient, it can still provide 400W of power, considering its a good one. Except 20% of the power pulled from the wall/socket is wasted as heat.

I do not think you are a no-knowing fool, but you act as if you know everything, which you clearly do not.

Sigh.... apparently not even physics calculations can convince you.

Let me put this a more simple way for you then.

We do not recommend parts that are below manufacturer's specifications, EVER. nVidia recommends a 450W PSU as a MINIMUM, and so, we do as well. Under no circumstances do we EVER recommend anything below the minimum specifications for any hardware or software. Doing so can cause permanent damage to a users system. Clear enough?

This discussion is over.

Undead Cheese · Sep 03, 2010, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

We do not recommend parts that are below manufacturer's specifications, EVER. nVidia recommends a 450W PSU as a MINIMUM, and so, we do as well. Under no circumstances do we EVER recommend anything below the minimum specifications for any hardware or software. Doing so can cause permanent damage to a users system. Clear enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

And just a FYI, most manufacturers (ATI and Nvidia in this case) over spec the amount of wattage you need for your card. The reason they do it is because alot of people (most of the market) buy generic/bad quality powersupplies that actually don't deliver their rated wattage and when they start to fail/get damaged, the manufacturers have to deal with the returns/RMA's which costs them alot of money.

There you go. Fair enough if you don't want to go below the manufacturers recommendation, that's fine, that doesn't change the fact that 400w can still power it without problems though.

Armageddon · Sep 03, 2010, 03:08 PM // 15:08

cheap generic power supplys usually cant deliver their stated power, for eg, a 500w generic psu could deliver only 250w (link) whereas a good supply like the Corsair CX400W could deliver more than the stated 400w (link)

between these 2 psu's, the lower rated supply would be much better

Milennin · Sep 07, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Just to let you guys know, I got my graphicscard (GT240) just earlier, and runs Guild Wars totally perfect at max settings.8)